Nadia Messiha:

0:14 hello and welcome to another edition of live love by design TV i’m karen Chaston
0:23 the founder of live life by design and your host and executive producer of this
0:28 groundbreaking TV show and today as always we have these amazing guests and
0:35 we have Nadia Messiha who actually is a family lawyer but more importantly Nadia
0:44 fits into our all about your relationships and all about your
0:49 expertise so let’s waste no more time and
0:53 introduce the beautiful Nadia how are you Nadia
0:57 Hi Karen I’m good thank you excellent so you are leaving the hills district of
1:04 Sydney and you are a family lawyer but you didn’t start out in the Hills just
1:09 you can see me now did you when you came into this beautiful realm that we all
1:14 like to call earth yes that’s absolutely right I was actually born in the Sudan
1:20 to Egyptian parents my grandparents all four of them move to the Sudan at this
1:27 stage the Sudan and Egypt were all part of the same almost same country didn’t need
1:31 a passport to go backwards and forwards yeah and they just relocated there was
1:36 it a major reason why was there a war or was they just unset in Egypt that made
1:41 the move to be honest I think it was going to greener pastures yeah and
1:49 actually that’s funny when you say greener pastures and I’m sure it’s a lot
1:53 of sand Is that right or is that me being ignorant No that is actually right we like to have fun here
2:08 so that’s beautiful so obviously growing up as an Egyptian in Sudan was there any
2:15 sort of prejudice or were you welcomed into the new community you know what Karen
2:23 we were very welcomed into the community when things were going great you know
2:28 like I said Sudan and Egypt they were almost treated as almost the same
2:32 country with no borders and then at one stage you know Egypt started saying all
2:39 right we’ve we’ve got our independence we have to close our borders now you
2:43 know you guys are still welcome but you need passports and it’s funny because
2:46 the Egyptian community then had a choice they were are they gonna become
2:50 Sudanese or Egyptians I guess until now they’re sort of stuck in the middle
2:55 where they’re not Sudanese enough for Saddam and when they go to Egypt the
3:00 accent and the dress and everything is different and so they’re not Egyptian
3:03 enough for Egypt yes they are sort of stuck in the middle Yes I can understand that yes so did
3:12 you find growing up because I believe you were the middle child of three
3:18 it’s not easy being the middle child now is it that’s so true teaches you a lot
3:26 yeah so let’s touch on that very briefly what
3:29 did that teach you so what it taught me was that you know I had to find a way
3:35 really you know whenever I wanted to get my way I have to find a way and I had to
3:40 be careful about it so it made me put a lot of thought into it so obviously how
3:45 I felt was I wasn’t the youngest child the spoiled boy and I wasn’t the eldest
3:52 child with the eldest privileges so for me to get my way I had to think about
3:57 things I had to negotiate ahead to mediate and I had to get in my way
4:01 even when resolving conflict with my two siblings without all-out war if I
4:07 could put it that way and I found that that’s really taught me a lot of things
4:11 even in my adult life and especially in family law yes I was going to say so do
4:17 you feel that was the grounding for you to actually want to become a family
4:21 lawyer to be honest it was actually when a relative of mine went through a really
4:27 really horrendous divorce and I could see the effects on the children and I
4:31 could see the effects on her and I was going through law school at that
4:35 time and I remember thinking that’s it I found my niche I want to be a family
4:39 lawyer because I don’t want to be this becoming the story of every person that
4:44 goes through a divorce you know okay so when did you come to Australia then so I
4:50 came in 1999 and how old were you then I was 14 years old
4:54 okay oh that’s interesting you’re actually younger than I thought you are I know
5:00 I think it’s all the you know doing kind of law for so long it’s not that you
5:07 look older I just see you as and I guess being a lawyer you certain have a a
5:13 certain status and and the way you hold yourself in and the way I guess you
5:18 use your words always make you seem older that’s more mature sure yeah but I
5:25 actually get that a lot I get that from a lot of people they
5:28 always thought oh you know I didn’t expect you to be that young which is good it’s just
5:34 especially when you’re a family lawyer but I I can remember going in and seeing a
5:38 friend in hospital like just last year and I looked at the doctor and I thought
5:43 does he look old enough to be a doctor like and that in itself and he was 28
5:49 but he looked like he was like 17 you know as he said it works against him at
5:55 times because people don’t value his advice as much that’s you know Karen
6:01 that’s you’ve hit the nail on the head yeah I sometimes do get that is special
6:06 and I get someone who’s you know in their 50s or 60s and they’re going
6:09 through divorce and they just look at me like I even know how to help me you know
6:13 being so young yeah but I think it’s sometimes experienced like you mentioned
6:18 you know it’s not so much as age as much as experience yes yeah so let’s get
6:24 into the Family Law side of it because I can understand why you were attracted to
6:29 it to help a friend and to see the grief that divorce separation causes not
6:36 only to the two people who were once in love but also to their children and it’s
6:43 not easy for anyone involved and I’m sure that a lot of people
6:49 go through a lot of soul-searching before they actually decide to take that next step
6:54 is that true that’s absolutely true Karen what I think what makes family
6:59 law interesting is that there is always two sides to the story and it’s
7:04 most difficult when the person who is left behind in a relationship I guess
7:09 who didn’t take that step suddenly finds themselves with a relationship that’s
7:13 ended a lot of actually statistics say 60% of men don’t see divorce coming you
7:20 know I have clients coming in telling me we’ve been separated under the same roof
7:24 we’ve been living in different rooms you know if the house we’re not even talking
7:27 for years but the moment I turned around and told him it’s over it was it
7:32 still came as a big shock hmm yeah have you ever read the book radical forgiveness no I
7:39 haven’t actually okay well I’ve read it just recently and
7:43 it’s actually very interesting in the fact that it actually comes radical
7:49 forgiveness comes more from a spiritual level as opposed to a forgiveness on our
7:56 sort of plane if the best way to put it in it it’s actually a great book and I
8:01 really do think everyone should read it because it actually helps you to see
8:06 that things are not done to you they’re done for you nice in a way to help you
8:15 grow on a soul level well it’s beautiful and it’s in it’s not an easy concept for
8:22 a lot of people to take on because I understand a lot of people do not
8:25 believe in spirit and God and you know the next life and and that that our soul
8:31 is eternal and but let’s just put that to the side for the moment because when
8:36 you start to understand that it’s done for me you start to do ask the questions
8:44 what am I meant to learn here yes how am I meant to grow yes and I think from
8:51 that perspective and correct me if I’m wrong that would help the negotiations
8:56 go a little bit more smoothly because you’d get rid of the blame and the
9:02 shame absolutely absolutely Karen that’s exactly right
9:06 it’s getting rid of the blame and shame exactly like you’ve put it it’s um I
9:11 actually think of it as almost going down to basics you know just remembering
9:16 that you like you said you once did you love this person you had a life with
9:19 them and if they want to leave and I’m I’m not saying this applies to every
9:25 single divorce you know that’s that would be completely wrong but in many
9:28 cases if we just think here is someone and if I can just respect the fact that
9:34 they now want to move on into the next chapter of their life and fortunately or
9:39 unfortunately I can’t be part of that chapter no let us not you know go at
9:46 each let us not turn this into a war let us not turn this into I’m gonna destroy
9:52 them because it’s either I’m in their life or I’m not there’s no middle ground
9:56 and let’s just think about the bigger picture you know and that’s why I think
10:01 helping people go through a divorce we need to step back from just the legals
10:06 yes into how people are feeling and how they can shift that mindset so that they
10:12 can move forward because that’s the only way they can move forward I totally
10:16 agree but it’s also about moving forward especially when you have children
10:21 knowing that I’m still gonna have to say this person absolutely absolutely
10:27 they may have been a horrible husband or a horrible wife or you know not the best
10:31 husband or not the best wife but there’s still a great parent you know and a lot
10:35 of people can be both they may not have been the best husband or wife but there
10:39 are fantastic parents and if we look at things from that way I think that will
10:44 help a lot especially if we’re going to be talking to them for the next you know
10:48 15 16 18 years exactly and especially when you think well your children are
10:53 going to grow up they’re going to get married do you really want to be at
10:57 their wedding actually still not talking to each other I was at a wedding
11:02 recently where that this that the son who got married was from divorced
11:08 parents and they couldn’t even sit together in the front to watch their son
11:13 get married which like I’ve been married for 40
11:16 years and I’ve been told you don’t understand what it’s like and I say do
11:19 you know what I have empathy I think I can put myself in your shoes and
11:24 understand what it would be like but I also understand that I still think my
11:29 husband and I would be friends even if we weren’t married
11:32 yes which which I know sounds a bit funny but I just feel that you did love
11:39 each other once so just for the sake of the children only when you were around
11:43 the children can’t you at least be nice to each other absolutely and you know
11:47 what Karen brought into mind a story that I remember reading about so someone
11:52 is talking to someone about holding a grudge and this person went well can you
11:56 hold this glass of water for me and they just left them holding that glass of
12:00 water for like two hours and by the end the guy is like I’m getting exhausted I
12:06 know it’s just a glass of water but I’m just getting exhausted of holding it and
12:09 the person responded well that’s exactly what you’re doing with your grudge it
12:13 may be small it may not that big but if you’ve been carrying it for a long time for
12:16 years yes imagine how much of your mental focus and energy it’s taking yes
12:23 be refusing to live your life yes and it’s holding you back from living to your
12:28 fullest you’re a silly part of that it is the other person even if isn’t even
12:33 aware what you’re carrying so you’re only hurting yourself you’re not hurting
12:38 someone else that’s absolutely right I just love this
12:41 okay so we hear about family lawyers trying to shift the focus more towards
12:48 mediation and collaborative law so what is it that you do differently to that or
12:53 is that what you do so that’s part of what I do but what I’ve discovered Karen
12:59 is that like I mentioned there’s no point in just focusing on the legal
13:03 aspect you know especially when it comes to family law we really got to look
13:07 beyond so if you think of it as circles you know so they’re the couple divorcing
13:12 and they obviously have their support network some of them may be even seeing
13:16 you know psychologists or psychiatrists to get through this period and then they
13:20 see the lawyers and no one’s talking to anyone so the lawyers are just telling
13:24 them what’s happening from the legal side and
13:27 all well and good to say all look let’s mediate him there’s this new thing
13:30 called collaborative law which is fantastic by the way but if the person’s
13:34 not in that mindset it’s just a waste of everyone’s time and energy if I could just go back a sec
13:40 because a lot of our viewers may not know what collaborative Law is I’m
13:43 pretty sure they know what mediation is so what what is collaborative law so
13:47 collaborative law is basically telling the parties come to the table be as open
13:51 and honest as possible try and settle the matter outside of court so
13:56 everything is already on the table and if we can’t settle none of what’s being
14:00 discussed in collaborative law can be used in court and in fact you can’t even
14:04 use the same lawyers that using yeah so it really gets people to try and focus
14:11 on settling I think it’s fantastic and it’s brilliant but I think it needs the
14:16 added angle of making sure everyone’s ready to settle before we even go down
14:21 that track for instance I had a matter if I can just quickly say that we were going to
14:26 mediation with the court on the Monday literally four days before that we
14:31 received the affidavit which is a statement of the version of the story
14:35 from the other side and it was full of the most hurtful things you can read you
14:41 know and I just remember reading it and I had to send it to my client because
14:44 she had to respond to it and I just remember thinking we’re not gonna settle
14:49 on Monday there’s no way we’re gonna settle after someone’s read what’s been
14:52 here because when she responds back she’s gonna be responding to these other
14:56 allegations all the hurt is gonna come welling up again and I kid you not we’ve
15:01 walked in on the Monday and we just sat there for maybe half an hour and we all
15:06 knew that we were gonna walk out again yes and I thought what a waste of
15:10 everyone’s time what a waste of a wonderful opportunity the court has
15:13 given us just just because things we’re not in the correct mindset yeah that’s
15:21 interesting because in in this book the radical forgiveness they actually say
15:26 that you should write three letters so the first letter where you put all that
15:32 hurt in you put it all in you you just go to town you bring up all of your
15:37 feelings tell anybody exactly what it gets you never send it of course
15:40 then you do another one where you can start you know putting as much in crying
15:46 if you need to getting rid of all those feelings but then starting to slowly see
15:51 the other side and then on the third letter you then because you’ve got rid
15:58 of all of that hurt in those first two letters you then start to come to a
16:03 place where you can actually see how it has been good for both of you and it is
16:09 also and how you know moving forward is you can come to radical forgiveness
16:16 which I think makes sense but you do write those letters you just don’t send
16:20 them then unfortunately sounds like your client didn’t get past that first letter which is such
16:27 a shame it is such a shame it is such a very expensive we know which does not
16:33 help with your wealth creation so the four pillars of live love by design
16:36 our viewers know all about you all about your relationships all about your
16:41 expertise and all about your wealth creation
16:44 and let’s face it divorce is a very costly and costly exercise most people
16:51 lose half their wealth if not more and normally you know they’re they’re into
16:56 their 30s or 40s are building and building and building and that in itself
17:01 brings in a lot of resentment absolutely absolutely you’re absolutely
17:06 right Karen but I guess that’s why and if I can put it this way that’s why
17:12 people need to be in the right mindset before they take that step because
17:16 otherwise it’s just money leaking you know if you think of it as water leaking
17:20 from a sive that’s exactly what it was good it’s gonna be like you all
17:25 these holes your emotions and the anger is creating holes in that pot that’s
17:30 getting the money leaking out but once you address all these issues then there
17:34 is money on the table that can be resolved you know and everyone just gets
17:39 the most out so they can start again it’s you know it just I get all
17:44 emotional every time I think about it because I also feel like when you’re
17:50 vulnerable people can take advantage of that you know
17:54 so if I’m gonna line my pockets because you’re vulnerable I’m not going to help
17:58 you you know why people need to be aware of where they are mentally so that
18:03 they’re vulnerability is not at their exposed to the open they can
18:07 address these issues and go in with a position of power when negotiating and
18:11 when they’re dealing with their family law I love that because you and and I
18:16 don’t want to generalize and I don’t want to bring in a probably a negative
18:21 belief that a lot of people have about lawyers that’s there you know there is
18:25 no reason for them to settle because the longer it goes on so but I feel with you
18:31 and I have had the pleasure of knowing you for a few years that you are more
18:36 let’s do the both for everyone concerned as opposed to just making more lawyers
18:42 rich and you guys bitter resentful and you know not in a financial secure
18:48 position that you could have been in if you had settled a couple years earlier is
18:52 that correct that’s absolutely correct Karen and in fact when doing all my you
18:57 know business courses and business networking I found something that’s
19:01 always been coming up and it’s givers gain and a win-win mindset and I thought
19:05 you know that’s exactly what we need to bring into family law this you know
19:09 win-win mindset and in terms of a givers gain it’s you give a little bit you know
19:14 so that you can have the best future the quickest future possible you know to go
19:20 into that bridge into your new life without burning any bridges behind so
19:24 today you may be fighting about the Doudna cover but really if you gave them
19:27 to do in a cover if you gave them that little bit of control would it matter
19:31 five years down the track in fact you look back and go can’t believe we’re
19:35 fighting about it you know that’s not what they’re fighting about no no it’s
19:40 not it’s not what they’re fighting about but it’s not I’m and it’s
19:46 a bit of control someone saying what’s this really about
19:51 it’s not about the Doudna you don’t even care about the dounda you probably never
19:55 even notice the Doudna what are you really fighting about yes exactly
20:01 exactly and that’s the thing before behind any disagreement
20:06 or any angst it’s normally not what it is and it could come back to something
20:11 that’s happened in your childhood in absolutely right Karen and people
20:15 understanding that and that’s why I love chatting with people to help our viewers
20:23 understand that you know what we live in a world that reality probably isn’t even
20:29 reality I like to say we’re all living in a movie we’re all chosen who we’re
20:34 going to be you’re all chosen the you know the the bit players in our life and
20:39 all this sort of stuff and understanding that we’re all here to grow and not only
20:46 personally in this realm but also on a soul level it sort of makes it a little
20:52 bit easier to sort of sit back and go okay what’s really happening here you
20:58 know where do I need to heal where do I need to grow and how can I do this
21:03 without you know having a million people sort of you know caught up in it all yes
21:13 absolutely in fact we always say in family law
21:17 lawyers the more support network you’ve got the less the chances of
21:22 settling this matter quickly because client and you convince them about
21:28 something and they see your point of view and they go outside and there are
21:32 people who are hurting for them you know I totally I’m laughing because I just know
21:45 exactly what what you’re talking about and even though these people think
21:49 they’re doing the right thing for you they’re actually not they’re not exactly
21:54 and people need to get in touch with who they are which is you know which is the
21:58 all about you or one of the areas of life of all about you is understanding
22:03 what is right for me yep asking yourself the questions not asking other people
22:08 asking you what is fair here what is right for here what can I actually live
22:14 with for the rest of my life because let’s face it a lot of people will go
22:20 through a divorce and one party will come out so badly
22:24 that they may even take their own life yes now if you’re on the other side of
22:29 that negotiation and that happened would you really feel like a winner absolutely
22:34 not absolutely not you’d have to be a big narcissist or
22:39 something else if you actually did after it now wouldn’t you that’s absolutely
22:43 right Karen and it becomes even nastier when the little kids you know you see here of
22:49 parents that you know just think that’s it I’m going and I’m taking my kids with
22:54 me yeah that’s horrible it is horrible and that’s why you know I think
23:00 if people looked inside if there was an introspective you know just thinking
23:05 about where this is going looking at the bigger picture then we can shift
23:08 mindsets I have to reiterate this doesn’t work for every single person yes
23:13 I’d say a majority of cases that end up in court don’t even need to be there in
23:17 the first place let’s leave the courts it’s almost like
23:21 an emergency section of the hospital let’s leave it for the true emergencies
23:24 I love that so now we’re running out of time as always so and I love what you do
23:31 I think it makes such a difference so how we always ask our guests to give a
23:37 little gift for our viewers so what is it you’d like to give our viewers
23:42 today Nadia you know Karen I actually couldn’t decide between the two gifts so
23:47 I’m thinking of presenting both to your viewers I’d love to to give both so one
23:57 of them is actually how to get the best out of your family law appointment and
24:02:00 it’s three checklists in one just like you preparing the best for that
24:07:00 appointment and making sure you’ve got the best foot forward and the other ones
24:11:00 called an estate mapping guide so if you’ve got your will in place but you’ve
24:14:00 got subscriptions memberships real estate property bank accounts how will
24:19:00 the executor know where to go so this puts all of that in the one place so he
24:25:00 knows that is such a great idea my son passed away seven years ago without a will
24:31:00 and thanks to his girlfriend she had a lot of the stuff we could put together
24:36:00 but I’m sure a lot of people would be going where do I start
24:40:00 what’s even that passwords to their computer you know what I mean exactly right
24:45:00 exactly right and I actually had the reason I started thinking about this is
24:50:00 because I had a client who had all his family’s overseas they’re in South Africa
24:55:00 in London and Greece and you know I was thinking how would they even know what
24:59:00 you’ve got in here if you didn’t have that checklist in place
25:03:00 yeah that’s great and and would that stay with a lawyer or would it well you
25:08:00 just give your family and just say look this is my checklist yeah absolutely
25:13:00 I would actually recommend you you keep it with both people so with a lawyer as
25:17:00 well as with your family or you can even just tell your family if anything
25:20:00 happens check this drawer or check this link
25:23:00 yeah that that perfectly makes sense yes it’s lovely
25:27:00 well Nadia I love talking to you and I know that you are married and you have a
25:32:00 couple of boys is that correct that’s correct
25:34:00 yes so I’m pretty sure that you and your husband are always negotiating on making
25:41:00 sure that you’re living the best life is that correct that’s absolutely correct
25:45:00 you know yep and we always try to think about the bigger picture
25:49:00 because at the end of the day you know where are you looking at the five years makes
25:54:00 a lot of things in the currents it really puts perspective on what’s
25:58:00 happening currently so I totally agree and you know and most people say what’s
26:03:00 you’re fighting about today will you really care about in five years time
26:06:00 unless people going on who would give a crap about your doudna cover like seriously you would have
26:12:00 changed five times by then now we have all of your details below this video and also people can get in contact with you so
26:25:00 you do do people outside the hills area as well
26:30:00 is that correct you yes do online with people that’s correct
26:33:00 yep so we called the hills family lawyers because we started in the hills and
26:36:00 I just love this part of the world oh that’s so nice and you have to admit anywhere in
26:40:00 Australia is absolutely beautiful we’re very blessed acbsolutley I
26:44:00 totally agree couldn’t agree more absolutely and but we help anyone in
26:50:00 Sydney and we even have interstate clients from Melbourne and Brisbane if
26:54:00 the other party is in Sydney ah that’s perfect
26:57:00 yes that totally makes sense okay well thank you Nadia
27:01:00 I have so enjoyed chatting with you today my pleasure Karen thank you for
27:06:00 your time thank you so much for this thanks bye and that has been another
27:10:00 episode of live love by design TV wasn’t Nadia amazing don’t you love the fact
27:18:00 that you can actually have a family law lawyer actually working towards a
27:25:00 win-win situation for everyone not a win-win situation where the lawyers win
27:32:00 and the two people who once loved each other both come out of it very bitter
27:38:00 resentful and not really learning or growing from the situation that’s right
27:46:00 that’s exactly what live love by design and live love by design TV is all about
27:51:00 assisting you to actually embrace all of areas of your life the whole four
27:58:00 pillars all about you all about your relationships all about your expertise
28:03:00 and all about your wealth creation a place where you truly can learn to live
28:09:00 and love each and every day to love who you are to love your life and to create
28:16:00 your dreams faster thank you again for watching and I look forward to seeing
28:21:00 you real soon on another episode over live love by design TV thank you